Friday, June 03, 2005

Ancient Egyptian Ethnicity

http://www.thuglifearmy.com/news/?id=1475
An article raising the subject of the ethnicity of the Ancient Egyptians, and supporting the view that they were of black African origins and culture. It claims that beginning with Napoleon, the true ethnicity of Ancient Egyptians has been disguised by western opinion. A fairly forceful and opinionated article, as you might expect from the domain name in the URL for this item.

54 comments:

Anonymous said...

hi i think that while were sitting here arguing about what they were ,the egyptians, had they been alive today to see this they would've simoply said they combined both elements, or all three. because that's exactly what they were in ethnic terms a sort of triracial mulatoe.

Anonymous said...

yeah! hey what's up, i think the egyptians would have been laughing out loud to see this argument take place, for to them race was not much an issue. although they probably would aknowledge that black blood was in them, they would'nt use it to capitalise on it, the one drop rule was no where in existence at the time. i think even those egyptians that were black did not let it get in the way of them being part of that civilization.

Anonymous said...

This argument is easy to dismiss for those who reisde in the culture of power and unknowingly receive undue benefits and privileges simply because of the color of their skin. However for those who have grown up in a racist society, been brain-washed and discriminated against, it is a very important issue and needs to be recognized. You're right, Egyptians did not have to make such distinctions because they were in power and had not suffered the eradication of their history, identity and worth. I'm afraid your view is very narrow. Articles such as this should and futhermore must be included in the context of history. It is easy for you to say who cares if Egyptians were white or black or some sort of mixture when every depiction of them is white or some sort of mixture and you haven't been left out of the equation. It is easy for you to say who cares if Jesus had blonde hair and blue eyes (although the Bible says his skin was the color of bronze and his hair was thick, black and curly) when every painting and movie portrays him as white. Not only have blacks been affected by this systemic racism, whites have as well. America could be a far richer place if the culture and ability of all people were properly recognized and valued. Your dismissive comments are a clear indication of why there is a severe need for articles just as this today. Open up your eyes and quit living in your comfortable world of oblivion just because it doesn't affect you. You could at least be respectful and just not comment on things in which you are unaware. Wake up!

Anonymous said...

HI,

I am a full blooded egyptian that was born and raised in the US. With full assurance I can tell you that Egyptians consider themselves egyptians. Not, black,white, or even arab. They speak of themselves as egyptians and treat every egyptian with full equality as an egyptian regardless of the color of thier skin. I have seen a black egyptian married to a very white egyptian and no one brought up the color issue. To egyptians color is a non existant matter. With that said, however, I would like to point out that egyptians are from africa. We drink and live by the same water and soil that every african does. The gold and silver that made ancient egypt wealthy came from africa. We even fully participate in the African Soccer Match.

So, if you want to limit the scope of your world to color then egyptians are and will always be part of thier african heritage. There is no biological link between europe and egyptians. We are to the African soil and life giving Nile as every other african. We are not european and do not wish to be part of europe.

Cody said...

This is a late post. But to have people attempting to try and change historical fact to comply with an agenda is very dangerous no matter the race. This is what the Nazi's did in attempting to say every great caucasian civilization was nordic (When in the western world it was largely first due to the semitic peoples and the egyptians!) and this is what Africanologists attempt to do in saying that egypt was purely sub-saharan black. You needn't lie about history to give an example of the greatness of negroid civilization (The term is not meant to be racist, but 'black' and 'african' are inaccurate terms, somewhat offensive given that north africa is a majority more mediterranean or arabic, and people of india can have darker skin colors than 'blacks'.), just look below egypt and you'll see Nubia, who developed alongside and shared and gave much with Egypt. It survived longer too, I think.

Race was not an issue in the past but culture was. The greek's were notoriously bigoted but only in being greek or a non greek. If you were dark, fair, negroid or caucasian and you spoke greek and had greek culture, they would have found you better than a blonde blue eyed nordic or Persian (Who were not blonde or blue eyed, but not 'arabic' either) barbarian, since barbarians were anyone who were not greeks.

North africa has always been largely caucasian (meaning not in skin, but in facial features) because of the Sahara. (http://www.angelfire.com/md/8/moors.html) The majority of moors were not negroid, and these sub-saharan africans would have made a minority as countless examples of european and Anadalusian (Spain) muslims depicting the moors show. Though I am sure they had a definate presence. I've read much of the contributions of the ethiopians and nubians and sudanese to the muslims, I'll remind you again that Nubia is so stepped in history, I believe they were remarked as sending troops to fight for troy in the illiad by homer!

In closing, egypt was as others remarked. A crossroads. It was the only place where the africans below the sahara could feasibly venture northward, and was a land where semitic and dark skinned middle easterners came, as did dark and lighter skinned Mediterraneans come from the sea (And they or the middle easterners would make a contemporary example of what north african's looked like.) Egypt had negroid pharoahs, fair skinned and dark skinned pharoahs. The contributions of all these races were no doubt one reason why Egypt is amongst the greatest of civilizations, and why it is a travesty to try and use it to create false history in order to contribute to a political agenda. Looking at egypt and saying 'that was ALL the Negroid's!' is as bad as the Nazi's looking at the splendor of egypt, persia, greece, rome, and india, and claiming it was all their nordic-ancestors.

Fine1952 said...

Thanks!

Anonymous said...

hi everyone, sometimes we forget how our own biases influence our opinions so much that we are blinded by them... i am not trying to contradict any one of your contributions in this page (even mine?)... as it can be clearly seen , an argument has to be viewed from the viewpoint of the person who wrote it and before that it is very important to understand what his/her biases are... which is why it is sad why some of these blogs have so much promise yet we know so little about the individual (most individuals) who wrote it... in any case the thing that i want to take away/bring in to the table is this...all races are equally capable and it is only when we work together that maximum efficiency can be achieved... sadly we spend most of time digging up the past and try to read only that information that will satisfy and add to our biases... sometimes i wish that earth should be attacked by some super evil alien race... only then i see a possibility (a very small one even with this) we "might" get united...
anyways all civilizations and races are equally blessed... delving into these topics is usually a waste of time though i do agree that media today is hypocritic and does use this kind of bias to good advantage ... i personally believe blacks today deserve more respect than they get and should take pride in their culture ... and if it helps.. i am not black ....alright then

Anonymous said...

THER WERE NO WHITE PEOPLE IN AFRICA 3000 YEARS AGO THE EGYPTIANS WHER BLACK

Anonymous said...

Were you there? If not, how can you be so positive that no white people existed on the African continent 3000 years ago? If you were there ..... I am majorly impressed ..... you have picked computer skills at your age??!! :>)

In all seriousness, nothing is served by being so didactic in one's approach to a discussion of things that were not personally witnessed. It is only by a willingness to be open (and that includes being open to the idea that our own opinions could be wrong,) what others have to contribute.

Anonymous said...

im quite surpised that there is so much confusion on the matter. its simple, look at the pictoral images that the egyptians left behinde. whatdo you see, a tanned semetic people, from the same racial group as the arabs. the egyptians were a people who in prehistoric times emigrated out of the middle-east and settled in fertile land aroudn the nile, later setting up their own civilisation as tribes come together over time. some continued onwards along the coast of north africa and became known as the berbers (who later were the moors alongside with the arabs). Some went northward to iraq and became known as the assyrians/babylonians/sumerians. those who went to lebnon became the phoenicians, and those who went to palestine became the philistines. all part of 1 racial group originally, but at this moment in history they were not refered to as 'arab', only those who remained in the arabian peninsula woudl be termed that for now. but as for the race of the ancient egyptians, u always see the man is a dark tan whislt the woman is the light tan. this would be because the man is workin al day under the sun, whislt the woman woudl stay at home. yes, to the south there were nubians who were black. yes for 70 years in egyptian history, egypt was ruled by nubian invaders, but then what happened? they got kicked out and actully as a result nubia was completly flattened. read egyptian poetry, they scorn the black nubians. look at the interior of the sandals of king tut, u'll see depictions of black africans and lybians, so as to say, these peopel are under me. likewise with the famous pose where the pharoah has all these different peoples, nubians, syrians and lybians holding them bythe hair in one hand and an axe in another, so as to say 'i am superior to you'. look to the mask of king tut, does he look black or have negroid features? no. does he have a wide nose? no. iv seen the mummy of ramses I at cairo musuem, he still has his hair and im sorry to say, but its not afro-type. its curely, but thats typical of middle-eastern hair. im not saying we're white, no we are not, but we are a people of are own regard. if anythign, to north sudan now, the blacks there are heavily mixed with semetic blood, have middle-eastern features as a result fo egyptian and later arab forces invading and takign over such land. for those who use statues of egyptians made from black color of blac stone as evidence, this is wrong. black was a holy colour in ancient egypt, and the statues show holiness. but look to the pictocal images!!! if u want me to provide examples i will. peace.

Anonymous said...

Our actions, beliefs, thoughts, emotions, fears, and dreams know no color. Why should any human being consider the color of one's skin to be of any importance? We all bleed the same, feel love, feel hate, feel anger, feel joy. Take off the skin and there is no true difference.

Anonymous said...

I've read all the comments and its about time an African American killed the BULL being told by foreign invaders who are NOT indigenous of the African continent. How can anyone say 'be colorblind' when you think of Egypt. Exactly who is digging up graves and cutting the nose off the ancient statues found buried beneath the African sands of Egypt. "Egyptians consider themselves Egyptians and not black" Egyptian is not an ETHNICITY. Egypt is the name given to the African land once known as KEMET. When a person of Indian descent speaks of his homeland and says I am the true American. No one debates them or calls them any type of racist in any form. Therefore when an African speaks of Egypt, Africa no person of foreign ethinicity has any right to disclaim them. Greeks, Arabs, Hykos, Persians, a multitude of ethnicities are all out discredit the African without any scintilla of factual reasoning or evidence. Tombs are found but no 'body' was present is what we read in our text. How bizarre can a person be? The pyramids were built as tombs for the African king Khufu and his son Khafre. The hieroglyphics is the OLDEST written language found on the pyramids. Hieroglyphics is a Greek word which means 'sacred writing'. The West African language Walaf, Coptic, and Hieroglyphics are indentical language forms, only a few consonants vary. The subsaharan argument is the weakest stance to make an argument with. No African from any African country can set foot in Europe and claim that Frenchmen are entirely different from Yugoslavians therefore they are not the same Europeans. The basis on which discreditation is formed is so falsely distorted its unreal. The famous Author William Finders Petrie is known as the "Father of Egyptology" found predynastic Africans called Bardarian people in Upper Egypt and Sudan (4800 - 3800bc). Later the Ethiopians came in and the 5th Dynasty began. I ask any foreign ethnicity to show evidence of where their culture had anything to do with Ancient Egypt around the time the pyramids were built. You can bring up falsely purported dna evidence that claim they weren't black but they can't name what ethnicity it was. If you ask me I'll be glad to show you the most significant statue that can't be erased. The lion of Africa. The lion which is indigenous of Africa. The continent of Africa has the largest number of species of Lion. And not only is it a lion it is half African man and half African lion. The greeks who arrived in Egypt 2339 years ago (332bc) called it a "Sphinx"

Anonymous said...

I agree with all the comments. People are always going to be subjective,objectivity does'nt exist.In light of modern times the idea that this culture could be created by anyone of even partial african descent is downplayed heavily in most eurocentric studies.

In my own subjective view which is based on my own genetic background :mostly caucasian/sub-saharan african ancestry along with some asian,it seems very likely that they had significant african ancestry.I look exactly like those ancient women though they are darker than me.I have been told I look mesopotamian?? syrian,egyptian,greek turkish,italian,iranian.Yet I am only one generation away from the amapondo[xhosa]african tribal group,the damara [african tribal group] and the khoisan group,both my parents were born in Africa,I have strong african roots despite a largely mediterranean appearence and body.

I wholly believe they had just as strong african roots.My father whose grandmother was mostly pondo [black] and whose father also had some black ancestry looks scottish,so until they do dna testing by non eurocentric testers I am going for a sub saharan influence.


It baffles me why someone of scottish descent is'nt studying ancient scythia,the very ancient balts or the picts from which they likely have ancient roots instead ?

There sits the incredible ancient history of Tribal europe wholly ignored in order to keep up a more med/roman/grecian legacy/alignment or modern suprememacy of having created civilisation.

Until the lion has his own historian the tale of the hunt will ALWAYS glorify the hunter
- a very apt african proverb.

Loved this line from another poster:
"Egyptians did not have to make such distinctions because they were in power and had not suffered the eradication of their history, identity and worth."

Anonymous said...

It's so hard for Americans to see past color lines. The truth is that color and "race" are two different things. Race is a made up concept that aides in classificatory separationist philosophy.

Since forever, diffusion has been taking place between cultures--clans, bands, environmentally- and circumstantially-propelled migrations, causing people of different "races" to come into contact with eachother. Always. It did not start with the Spanish. It started with groups we don't even know about. And it was definitely going on in Egypt since the probably before the dawn of its growth as an uberculture. This is what needs to be celebrated. Not nonsense about who planted the first seed here and who took a dump on this rock first. Or, whatever.

The same with Greece. The idea that Greece is some representation of European heritage--whatever the hell that is (Europe is a CONCEPT, not a CONTINENT!)--is ludicrous. The Greeks were not even the first people in the land area now recognized as "Greece". They were simply the biggest conquerers--well, until the Ottomans. So, basically, its all in the eye of the gainful beholder.

The Greeks were pretty much like the Eqyptians before they became "Greeks" and went to Egypt Proper. They might even be considered an extension of Egypt. And if Greece is associated with Europe, than we can say that the Egyptians were in Europe (whatever that is) before the Europeans were in Egypt (sorry, French).

The point is history and cultural evolution are all about oscillation--back and forth, north and south, east and west, etc.

Oh, and no matter what anyone thinks, it is an inevitable reality that Black People (whatever that means) have been a part of ancient civilizations forever. The issue is so moot when it comes to Egypt. Even to Eurasia.
There are traces of "negroid" skeletons in Russia, China, the Middle East. Come on, stop being divisive and realize that Africa has an effect everywhere on Earth.
Especially in Africa.

Anonymous said...

LOOK AT THE PICTOCAL IMAGES ON THE WALLS OF EGYPTIAN RUINS. THE EGYPTIANS PAINT THEMSELVES A CARMEL COLOUR. THE NUBIANS TO THE SOUTH WERE PAINTED BLACK AND GIVEN WIDE NOSES WITH AFRO HAIR. THE LYBIANS TO THE WEST WERE PAINTED WHITE WITH CURLY HAIR AND THIN NOSES. The egyptians were a people of mixed ethnicities. They were sandwhiched between the various ethnicities of southern africans western colonial semetics and eastern semetics and aryans. Egypt formed a melting pot of all different peoples who vary in features and colours. There were many rulers of egypt. The Persians( an aryan or indo-iranian people who looked similar to tanned skinned modern day Iranians), The Greeks( tanned people who may have blonde hair or blue eyes), and at one point the Nubians ( a very dark skinned people with black afro hair), etc.. EGYPT WAS NOT A LAND OF ONE ETHNIC GROUP IT WAS A LAND OF MIXED PEOPLE. LOOK AT THE EGYPTIAN STATUES, MONUMENTS AND ARTWORK. YOU WILL SEE THE BEAUTY OF THE DIVERSITY OF PEOPLES. BLACKS MARRIED WHITES AND WHITES MARRIED SEMETICS AND SO ON AND SO FORTH. RACISM WAS NOT CREATED UNTIL THE CONQUEST OF ALEXANDER. THE EMPIRES OF PERSIA AND EGYPT BOTH PRACTICED RACIAL EQUALITY AND MIXED FREELY TO PRODUCE THE PHENOTYPES PRESENT ON THE RUINS OF THESE POWERFUL ANCIENT PEOPLE............. I AM A PROFESSOR OF ARCHAEOLOGY BY THE WAY AND A JAPANESE-AMERICAN.

Anonymous said...

Lets be very clear on one critical issue and that is the colour of "white." When someone says they consider themselves "white" in the context of an Egyptican in Egypt, then we should be clear to understand that they don't mean "white" in the context of a European (or anglo-saxon). The white in the Egyptician context is a relativistic one - that is brown-skinned Egypticans are "whiter" than the other members of the Eqypt population that may be darker/or of the negro group.

Anonymous said...

ancient pharaohs were not some white dude that looked like Brad Pitt. More realistically, he probably looked more like Magic Johnson (representing the later Nubic conquors). But the ancient Old Kingdom pharaohs were most likely browned skinned Middle Easterners. They in no way would be the modern Europeans (as they would most proudly would have you think...or atleast they did as recently as 50yrs ago).

Anonymous said...

Isn't it odd that no one ever questions the racial identities of the Romans or Greeks. Why is this? And why only does race become an issue when we talk about Egypt? why can't the African continent spawn an African people as the one takes for grnated the Europe is the indegnious land of the Caucasion. How absurd would you say I were if I started saying that the Romans were blackand so were the Greeks. Would anyone take me serious. Although that were many Africans (blacks)living in both these civilizations. As a matter of fact two Roman Emperors were African and three of the early Popes. Its pure racism to conjecture anything but what is archeologically, geographically, historcially and philosophically the remnant of pure African content relative to Egypt. Whites claim Afrocentrism to be revisionist but I submit the following:
Egypt is in Africa not the Middle East. A term that didn't exist prior to 1947.

Jesus'color doesn't matter according to the European, yet he's always conspiously protrayed as "lily white." But of course it doesn't matter right?

Egpyt proceeded Greece and Rome.And their architeture, fables, myths, gods and history attest to this fact.

Linguistically, Egyptian is more closely tied to the African language of Wolof that an European language will ever be or Arab for that matter. Ancient Egyptians did not speak Arabic. So they could not be the indegnious people,because they arrived in the mid 7th century quite late for ancient times.
Greek historian Herodutus flately describes the Egyptian, Libyans, Nubians, Phoneicians, and Summerians as nothing but black skinned with wooly hair. Remember this man is whom whites refer to as "the father of history". Plato, Aristole, Pliny, Deodorus and many other wrote about the Egyptians and all noted their "black skin, or burnt faces". I could go on but you get the point. Why are we not as scrutinizing of ancient Romans and Greeks as to skin color? Thats easy to the western mind high civilizations mean white man. Under developed ones mean brown or black man. Same as in the Americas. China is the exception only because he was never able to conquer them and thereby rewrite their history through the spectacles of westernized blue eyed delusion.
THANK YOU

shaman said...

people should be reasonable and listen to the archaeologist. If you look at the depictions that the egyptians themselves made, they look brown skinned, but still distinct from the nubians. They obviously had black african blood in them, but they also obviously had mid-eastern blood in them as well. People are quick to try to label people as one of the monolithic black, white or asian groups, but when you look at people in today's world we don't see only those groups anyway. What about Arabs, Indians (from India), Native americans, Hispanics, Pacific Islanders, Aboriginies or Siberians. Are they nonexistant or something? Modern biology has proven that racial differences account for no more than .01% of our genetic heritage anyway.

All that people have to go off of are the mummies, which tell almost nothing about what they look like, and the art. And one thing that we can be sure of with art is that it portrays an idealized version of what the people who made it look like in real life. Herodotus said " I believe, if horses could make statues of gods, their gods would look like horses." In this vein, Roman statues look white because ancient romans were white. Ancient Chinese statues look Asian because they were asian. Egyptian statues look like a blacks, mid-easterns or a mixture of the two, because that is what the ancient Egyptians looked like.

But by the way one blogger said that king tuts funerary mask did not have black facial features...What is he smoking? Has he ever even seen it? The mask has thick lips and a wide nose.

Anonymous said...

whatever the ancient egyptians were/are, they are definitely NOT white europeans as we know it now. They can ONLY be Middle Easterners - brown/dark skinned or Negroid - light/dark skinned. Who cares if they have "caucasin" features. That is just so arbitary.

I said...

Go check out the King Tut exhibit and look at the enemies he's trampling... They had negroid features.

My friends w/Egyptian heritage don't consider themselves black. They also don't have negroid features. I'm going to have to go with the full-blooded Egyptian on this one b/c I'm willing to bet that the people who are contesting this aren't Egyptian or of Egyptian heritage. What will settle this is an Egyptian who says s/he is black or is white b/c those are the only two races that exist in this world, right? Just those two... WOW! Glad we got that settled.

RE: the Jesus thing, I'm sure he looked Israeli. Where does it say in the Bible that his hair was thick, black and curly? I missed that verse. Is that a new translation? WAIT! I know why I missed it! It was in Aramaic, right?

What's offensive is when people just barge in and claim that some ancient race was ONLY THIS OR THAT! THAT is what is ANNOYING! So, coming in and saying Egyptians are BLACK is not only racist, but offensive--just as saying Egyptians are WHITE! There ARE O-T-H-E-R races in this world! Not everyone is BLACK OR WHITE! So, don't go sticking your racial flag somewhere JUST to "ENHANCE" your image. That goes out to people who say Jesus is white and who say Egyptians are black. Zora Neale Hurston said it best, "I am colored but I offer nothing in the way of extenuating circumstances except the fact that I am the only Negro in the United States whose grandfather on the mother's side was not an Indian chief." According to all of this, there aren't any Native Americans... It's ALL black and white...like the black letters on this white background.

KMan said...

To all of those who have posted comments, thank you. You have all shared your personal thoughts and opinions from your own perspectives. Some were quite good and others just talk with no regard for TRUTH or scientific reality. For those of you who have never been to Africa, I would implore you to go. Not just to Egypt but other nations as well. This would help the many of you who feel one way about what you believe as to the fact of what is. Learn about anthropology, archeology, etc… and TRUE history who wrote it, why, and the connections that bind that history. That being said: Ancient Egyptians were by modern racial classification most notably black (Negroid /sub-Saharan) African. Of that there is no doubt, only argument to except the TRUTH is the issue.

Facts:
1. Egypt is located in Africa.
2. North East Africa, known as Saba or Sheba in ancient times’ though in 1947 it became known as Saudi Arabia.
3. Blacks (African/Negroid) have the most diverse genetic / phenotype in the world and dominant genes among humans.
4. Middle Easterners did not migrate to Egypt and settle and develop the culture.
5. It had been developing since roughly 9000-6000 B.C.
6. Archeological evidence shows human habitation and cattle herding from the Sudan / Nubia.
7. Ancient Nubia is modern day Sudan & Ethiopia (Arabic is not the native tongue).
8. Aristotle and Herodotus both identified Egyptians as Black skinned kinky hair people.
9. Herodotus 484 B.C. to 425 B.C. Aristotle 384B.C. – 322 B.C. lived nearly 1000 years prior to the first recorded light Egyptian by Ammianus Marcellinus who lived 325/330 A.D. – around 391 A.D.
10. Any theories that state ancient Egyptians where anything other than Blacks (African/Negroid) are pseudoscientific and there is no evidence supporting them. On the contrary the over whelming evidence supports they were members of the Black race as we know it to be.

Historical data of dialogue: There are archeological findings that support that the first pharaoh was young prince named Narmer who united the two lands (by some believe Menes to be the first King) of Upper Egypt (Sudan/Nubia) and Lower Egypt (near Luxor today). This is also the location of the Valley of the Kings. The Temple of Rameses II which had been moved from its original location of Abu Simbel on the Nubian border is without doubt larger than life evidence of the Black African in Egypt. The mastaba tombs were the models that predated the Old Kingdom Step Pyramids (found in Sudan/Nubia) and the later Great pyramids of Kufu and Khafre in Cairo. It would only stand to reason logically about the data presented. The Egyptians as we call them today were a people who can trace there roots back to Meroe in Ethiopia, from the first cataract of the Nile (5 in all) that separate them from Thebes/Luxor and Karnak. Through the Biblical land of Kush (who I dare say all scholars on the subject agree were most definitely Black/Negroid. The language of ancient Egypt (Kemet) is one that is more African (Black/sub-Saharan) than any other culture. All one has to do is look at the evidence, and look carefully because someone can present information over then internet or other forms of media that can be manipulated. Go and visit the sites of the land your self if you can in your lifetime.
Thoughts of modern perceptions: Modern Egypt is a country in which many Egyptians may not know there own history depending where they fall on the social, academic or economical ladder, having been a missegenated (forced mixing) culture by Europeans since the time of Alexander the Great 332 B.C. and later the Muslim conquest was not until 632 A.D. with others in between. So it is reasonable to think that some of ones culture could be lost.

Yet traces remain as with Africans (Blacks of African ancestry) around the world. From North American blacks to South American blacks whether they speak English, Spanish, or French or native tongue of those they have mixed with are they any less related to their African heritage by their spiritual beliefs, dances, or physical look/appearance. Why does it capture us so this land called Egypt? Well for one it’s the one of the Greatest Dynasties ever to be set upon this Planet (if not the GREATEST). Since many western Europeans and white Americans believe that they are superior to other races, having conquered a great deal of the world and thus writing the history of those they conquered.

To be presented with a civilization and history that predates their own leaves one to attempt to establish how they are yet again the authors of the civilization and its history. Yet they cannot justify those who came before them with data that contradicts what we know of present day Egyptian history. So when one blogger writes about the importance of dealing with the issue as a matter of race due to the fact that many African cultures have been affected and still suffer due to eradication of their history, identity and worth believe you me it has merit. Just as many whites who live in America are proud to be Italian American, Irish American, or German American (what ever the nationality) no one asks them to apologies or say those cultures are anything but white and European in origin.

George Rawlinson, an English author wrote a book entitled History of Egypt. On page 252, he gives a description of Seti I. He states: "SETI'S FACE WAS THOROUGHLY AFRICAN. HE HAD A STORMY FACE WITH A DEPRESSED FLAT NOSE, THICK LIPS AND HEAVY CHIN."

Dr. Mark Goodacre: program entitled the Complete Jesus; “Now it’s very unlikely that Jesus would have been able to be HIDDEN in Egypt, if he had a very different color of SKIN from the people in Egypt.” Yahshuah was a dark /black skinned man.

B.K. Redd, Rutgers University student asked of one of his professors “If you have ever seen the statue head of Nefertiti on display at the Altes museum in Berlin you will notice she most looks like what famous model”?

Answer: Iman, once world supermodel who happens to be from Somalia.

Who decides to present what artifacts to the public, and what country (stores/warehouses) the most Egyptian artifacts and its legacy? Why is it that many of the artifacts depicting Egyptians are damaged around the nose and mouth? Making racial or ethnic identification difficult and in some cases impossible. One of the most puzzling arguments is that the Egyptians painted themselves not as they were but in the holy color of black. This is yet another fallacy with weak and unsubstantiated evidence. Every culture of people around the world has made images of themselves that look like them. Yet we are to believe that these ancient people who gave us reading, writing, mathematics, the calendar and other technology would be a white race of people who painted themselves as Black/Negroid/ sub-Saharan; where is the logic in that. The notion that Egyptians and Nubians were at war because they were two racial groups has no scientific bases. If it were the case then historian would have to conclude that when Rome conquered much of Europe, they fought so viciously because the Gaul’s, English, Spanish, Celtic and or Swiss were different racial groups. Tiger Woods and Halle Berry are to of the worlds most notable Black Americans who are both bi-racial (Woods being Black and Thai, and Berry being Black and White) both are noticeably Black as a matter of race and could also pass for ancient Egyptian.
European nations and Americans have had nearly a 600 year run (from mid 1400’s beginning of slavery to the KKK in the late 1870’s until present day Jena 6 LA USA Sept 2007), at influencing the world (shaping world perspective) in their distain for Blacks as a race of people. Thus further and maintain the myth that Blacks no matter where in the world could have conceivably given the world so much through the very nature of Egypt being a Black/Negroid/sub-Saharan land or country. The Bible is a Holy Book that is very much, most scholars would say a copy of The Book of Coming “or Going” Forth By Day (also known as The Book of the Dead named by the German Egyptologist Karl Richard Lepsius,). This culture and book predates modern Christianity by several thousand years. It is thought by some that Maat's (an Egyptian deity) 42 laws may be the source of the Hebraic Ten Commandments.
It's a historical fact that the mass majority of captive slaves brought to the Americas, came from West Africa, although some were brought from East Africa, they were the minority. These West African tribal nations that many Blacks in the Americas were taken from, have many ancient Hebrew customs in there culture. The KAFFIR, BO, GREBO, MARIBUCK, MAVUMBA, AKRA, FANTI, AKIN, YORUBA, KONGO, AND ASHANTI. Just to name a few of the many sub-Saharan nations that engage in ancient Israelite rituals. Many which can be found in the Egyptian spiritual tenants.
Such rituals includes
• CIRCUMCISION,
• THE DIVISION OF THEIR TRIBES INTO TWELVE, BLOOD SPRINKLING UPON THEIR ALTARS AND DOOR POSTS,
• MARRYING OF THEIR BROTHER'S WIFE AFTER DEATH,
• SEPARATION AND PURIFICATION AFTER CHILD BIRTH,
• UNCLEANNESS DURING CHILD BIRTH,
• UNCLEANNESS DURING MENSTRUATION
• NEW MOON CELEBRATIONS.
• Henna dye is used in many cultures in Africa to color hair.
Other important facts the word Jew is not an Old Testament word or a New Testament word. It was added to the canonized Bible much later in the or around the mid 1600’s, J is not one of the letters pronounced in ancient African cultures. For example the word Hebrew is English translated from the word Ibryi. Hebrew is the English equivalent to the word Ibryi in the Tanakh, (Old Testament). The ancient Egyptians didn't call their land Egypt; they called it Kemet /Khemet /. The Hebrews called it Mizraim and Pathros, the Greeks called it Aegyptios, subsequently changed to how we pronounce it today is Egypt. So when we think of the importance once again, think about connections between language, art, spiritual, social structure and other known contributors when discussing any issue, especially one which often is spoken subjectively rather than objectively. As a little boy I often wondered why the Indians in cowboy movies looked like the cowboys, or why no one looked like Charlton Heston when I visited in Egypt for three months in the 1980’s. Or how come the pictures of the Great Native Americans chiefs taken in the late 1880’s-1890’s didn’t look like Burt Lancaster, simply because these white actors didn’t represent the true image of those people.

It wasn’t until I became a student of history and later associate professor that I realized our perceptions are widely made up of what we see in the media (TV/movies) or have been taught in schools. It is not until we begin to study through secondary education that we see TRUTH many times first hand. Did Columbus really discover America? Think about it the land was here with people living on it and thriving. Also another historical note many of you may not be familiar with, Columbus never actually stepped foot on America but rather the islands in the Caribbean. Peace to All and you continue your search to become enlightened.

Books and web-site of interest:

The African Origin of Civilization: Myth or Reality (Paperback) by Cheikh Anta Diop (Author)

They came before Columbus: Ivan Van Sertima

Blacks in Science: Ancient and Modern (Journal of African Civilizations; Vol. 5, No. 1-2) by Ivan Van Sertima (Paperback - Jan 1, 1983)

Black Pioneers of Science and Invention: by Louis Haber (Paperback - Dec 1, 2007)

http://www.raceandhistory.com/manu/update.htm

http://www.stewartsynopsis.com/black_egyptians_are_the_original.htm

http://www.africa.upenn.edu/Country_Specific/Egypt.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WOZ0C4gPAI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FciCAXYWx3s

KMan said...

To all of those who have posted comments, thank you. You have all shared your personal thoughts and opinions from your own perspectives. Some were quite good and others just talk with no regard for TRUTH or scientific reality. For those of you who have never been to Africa, I would implore you to go. Not just to Egypt but other nations as well. This would help the many of you who feel one way about what you believe as to the fact of what is. Learn about anthropology, archeology, etc… and TRUE history who wrote it, why, and the connections that bind that history. That being said: Ancient Egyptians were by modern racial classification most notably black (Negroid /sub-Saharan) African. Of that there is no doubt, only argument to except the TRUTH is the issue.

Facts:
1. Egypt is located in Africa.
2. North East Africa, known as Saba or Sheba in ancient times’ though in 1947 it became known as Saudi Arabia.
3. Blacks (African/Negroid) have the most diverse genetic / phenotype in the world and dominant genes among humans.
4. Middle Easterners did not migrate to Egypt and settle and develop the culture.
5. It had been developing since roughly 9000-6000 B.C.
6. Archeological evidence shows human habitation and cattle herding from the Sudan / Nubia.
7. Ancient Nubia is modern day Sudan & Ethiopia (Arabic is not the native tongue).
8. Aristotle and Herodotus both identified Egyptians as Black skinned kinky hair people.
9. Herodotus 484 B.C. to 425 B.C. Aristotle 384B.C. – 322 B.C. lived nearly 1000 years prior to the first recorded light Egyptian by Ammianus Marcellinus who lived 325/330 A.D. – around 391 A.D.
10. Any theories that state ancient Egyptians where anything other than Blacks (African/Negroid) are pseudoscientific and there is no evidence supporting them. On the contrary the over whelming evidence supports they were members of the Black race as we know it to be.

Historical data of dialogue: There are archeological findings that support that the first pharaoh was young prince named Narmer who united the two lands (by some believe Menes to be the first King) of Upper Egypt (Sudan/Nubia) and Lower Egypt (near Luxor today). This is also the location of the Valley of the Kings. The Temple of Rameses II which had been moved from its original location of Abu Simbel on the Nubian border is without doubt larger than life evidence of the Black African in Egypt. The mastaba tombs were the models that predated the Old Kingdom Step Pyramids (found in Sudan/Nubia) and the later Great pyramids of Kufu and Khafre in Cairo. It would only stand to reason logically about the data presented. The Egyptians as we call them today were a people who can trace there roots back to Meroe in Ethiopia, from the first cataract of the Nile (5 in all) that separate them from Thebes/Luxor and Karnak. Through the Biblical land of Kush (who I dare say all scholars on the subject agree were most definitely Black/Negroid. The language of ancient Egypt (Kemet) is one that is more African (Black/sub-Saharan) than any other culture. All one has to do is look at the evidence, and look carefully because someone can present information over then internet or other forms of media that can be manipulated. Go and visit the sites of the land your self if you can in your lifetime.
Thoughts of modern perceptions: Modern Egypt is a country in which many Egyptians may not know there own history depending where they fall on the social, academic or economical ladder, having been a missegenated (forced mixing) culture by Europeans since the time of Alexander the Great 332 B.C. and later the Muslim conquest was not until 632 A.D. with others in between. So it is reasonable to think that some of ones culture could be lost.

Yet traces remain as with Africans (Blacks of African ancestry) around the world. From North American blacks to South American blacks whether they speak English, Spanish, or French or native tongue of those they have mixed with are they any less related to their African heritage by their spiritual beliefs, dances, or physical look/appearance. Why does it capture us so this land called Egypt? Well for one it’s the one of the Greatest Dynasties ever to be set upon this Planet (if not the GREATEST). Since many western Europeans and white Americans believe that they are superior to other races, having conquered a great deal of the world and thus writing the history of those they conquered.

To be presented with a civilization and history that predates their own leaves one to attempt to establish how they are yet again the authors of the civilization and its history. Yet they cannot justify those who came before them with data that contradicts what we know of present day Egyptian history. So when one blogger writes about the importance of dealing with the issue as a matter of race due to the fact that many African cultures have been affected and still suffer due to eradication of their history, identity and worth believe you me it has merit. Just as many whites who live in America are proud to be Italian American, Irish American, or German American (what ever the nationality) no one asks them to apologies or say those cultures are anything but white and European in origin.

George Rawlinson, an English author wrote a book entitled History of Egypt. On page 252, he gives a description of Seti I. He states: "SETI'S FACE WAS THOROUGHLY AFRICAN. HE HAD A STORMY FACE WITH A DEPRESSED FLAT NOSE, THICK LIPS AND HEAVY CHIN."

Dr. Mark Goodacre: program entitled the Complete Jesus; “Now it’s very unlikely that Jesus would have been able to be HIDDEN in Egypt, if he had a very different color of SKIN from the people in Egypt.” Yahshuah was a dark /black skinned man.

B.K. Redd, Rutgers University student asked of one of his professors “If you have ever seen the statue head of Nefertiti on display at the Altes museum in Berlin you will notice she most looks like what famous model”?

Answer: Iman, once world supermodel who happens to be from Somalia.

Who decides to present what artifacts to the public, and what country (stores/warehouses) the most Egyptian artifacts and its legacy? Why is it that many of the artifacts depicting Egyptians are damaged around the nose and mouth? Making racial or ethnic identification difficult and in some cases impossible. One of the most puzzling arguments is that the Egyptians painted themselves not as they were but in the holy color of black. This is yet another fallacy with weak and unsubstantiated evidence. Every culture of people around the world has made images of themselves that look like them. Yet we are to believe that these ancient people who gave us reading, writing, mathematics, the calendar and other technology would be a white race of people who painted themselves as Black/Negroid/ sub-Saharan; where is the logic in that. The notion that Egyptians and Nubians were at war because they were two racial groups has no scientific bases. If it were the case then historian would have to conclude that when Rome conquered much of Europe, they fought so viciously because the Gaul’s, English, Spanish, Celtic and or Swiss were different racial groups. Tiger Woods and Halle Berry are to of the worlds most notable Black Americans who are both bi-racial (Woods being Black and Thai, and Berry being Black and White) both are noticeably Black as a matter of race and could also pass for ancient Egyptian.
European nations and Americans have had nearly a 600 year run (from mid 1400’s beginning of slavery to the KKK in the late 1870’s until present day Jena 6 LA USA Sept 2007), at influencing the world (shaping world perspective) in their distain for Blacks as a race of people. Thus further and maintain the myth that Blacks no matter where in the world could have conceivably given the world so much through the very nature of Egypt being a Black/Negroid/sub-Saharan land or country. The Bible is a Holy Book that is very much, most scholars would say a copy of The Book of Coming “or Going” Forth By Day (also known as The Book of the Dead named by the German Egyptologist Karl Richard Lepsius,). This culture and book predates modern Christianity by several thousand years. It is thought by some that Maat's (an Egyptian deity) 42 laws may be the source of the Hebraic Ten Commandments.
It's a historical fact that the mass majority of captive slaves brought to the Americas, came from West Africa, although some were brought from East Africa, they were the minority. These West African tribal nations that many Blacks in the Americas were taken from, have many ancient Hebrew customs in there culture. The KAFFIR, BO, GREBO, MARIBUCK, MAVUMBA, AKRA, FANTI, AKIN, YORUBA, KONGO, AND ASHANTI. Just to name a few of the many sub-Saharan nations that engage in ancient Israelite rituals. Many which can be found in the Egyptian spiritual tenants.
Such rituals includes
• CIRCUMCISION,
• THE DIVISION OF THEIR TRIBES INTO TWELVE, BLOOD SPRINKLING UPON THEIR ALTARS AND DOOR POSTS,
• MARRYING OF THEIR BROTHER'S WIFE AFTER DEATH,
• SEPARATION AND PURIFICATION AFTER CHILD BIRTH,
• UNCLEANNESS DURING CHILD BIRTH,
• UNCLEANNESS DURING MENSTRUATION
• NEW MOON CELEBRATIONS.
• Henna dye is used in many cultures in Africa to color hair.
Other important facts the word Jew is not an Old Testament word or a New Testament word. It was added to the canonized Bible much later in the or around the mid 1600’s, J is not one of the letters pronounced in ancient African cultures. For example the word Hebrew is English translated from the word Ibryi. Hebrew is the English equivalent to the word Ibryi in the Tanakh, (Old Testament). The ancient Egyptians didn't call their land Egypt; they called it Kemet /Khemet /. The Hebrews called it Mizraim and Pathros, the Greeks called it Aegyptios, subsequently changed to how we pronounce it today is Egypt. So when we think of the importance once again, think about connections between language, art, spiritual, social structure and other known contributors when discussing any issue, especially one which often is spoken subjectively rather than objectively. As a little boy I often wondered why the Indians in cowboy movies looked like the cowboys, or why no one looked like Charlton Heston when I visited in Egypt for three months in the 1980’s. Or how come the pictures of the Great Native Americans chiefs taken in the late 1880’s-1890’s didn’t look like Burt Lancaster, simply because these white actors didn’t represent the true image of those people.

It wasn’t until I became a student of history and later associate professor that I realized our perceptions are widely made up of what we see in the media (TV/movies) or have been taught in schools. It is not until we begin to study through secondary education that we see TRUTH many times first hand. Did Columbus really discover America? Think about it the land was here with people living on it and thriving. Also another historical note many of you may not be familiar with, Columbus never actually stepped foot on America but rather the islands in the Caribbean. Peace to All and may you continue your search to become enlightened.

Books and web-site of interest:

The African Origin of Civilization: Myth or Reality (Paperback) by Cheikh Anta Diop (Author)

They came before Columbus: Ivan Van Sertima

Blacks in Science: Ancient and Modern (Journal of African Civilizations; Vol. 5, No. 1-2) by Ivan Van Sertima (Paperback - Jan 1, 1983)

Black Pioneers of Science and Invention: by Louis Haber (Paperback - Dec 1, 2007)

http://www.raceandhistory.com/manu/update.htm

http://www.stewartsynopsis.com/black_egyptians_are_the_original.htm

http://www.africa.upenn.edu/Country_Specific/Egypt.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WOZ0C4gPAI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FciCAXYWx3s

11:54 AM

Anonymous said...

yea hi, i would just like to make to statements that egyptians are nto dead, alot of the comments say were (past tense) but actually im egyptian(fully) and the other statement that everyone in egypt (north africa is caucasian. just wanted to let u guys know.

Anonymous said...

"Wow" amaze at the posting here and decide to throw my cap in on this one... Now for all you folk out there using the term "Egyptian", or say the people of this land called themself "Egyptian", have not really done your home work since the word "Egyptian" is a "Greek" name for the people and the land. The land in which we are speaking of and the people who lived there had serveral names for themself and the land. kmt (kemet)since the Kemetic people did not use vovels in their langauage we drop them out: mean blackland, Ta-mery,Ta-meri, I prefer Ta-mry: mean: TA = Land, (Mery,Meri,Mry = Twice beloved land); talking about upper and lower kmt. We will come back to this later on some of the reason they call it the blackland. Now let see what the people themselves wrote about who they were and where they can from. Let begin with the so called 1st dynasty and the Namer Plate (Namer: mean = catfish), just one of his name. in the plate of Namer we see on the front side him wearing the white crown of upper kmt, (which by the way is located toward south near the land of Ta-Seti Meaning: Land of the Bow)and him bring all of that part of the land under his ruleship; on the opposite side we see Namer wearing the red crown of Lower KMT, and him smitting and defeating his ememy of the Delta region, bring unification of the two-land into one called "KMT & Ta-Mry". Now at this point let look at a map, and the location of this place called KMT, and there's no mistaking that the land is located in the continine of what we call "Africa" today; what is so amazing to me is if you go to any other country or land mass we have no problem in calling a spade a spade, tree a tree, Greek is Greek, Germany is Germany, Italy is Italy, but it seem when is comes to this place call Africa, all of a sudden we have trouble with it's inhabits. Now in the papyrus of Hunifer we have in their own words where they say they come from; in that papyrus we find the statement: We come from the begining of the Hapi (Nile)river at the Mountains of the 4 moons... This place is were we fine the beginning of the "blue" and "white" Hapi river in the region of the 4 highest mountians in Africa, and where the oldest bones of humankind (Not Man-kind) since they are of a woman... but that's another topic all together.... ("whew" to much for some male ego right now... I'm a male by the way)

Now in the land of TA-Seti, we can find the evidence of the start of the Hru (Heru) kingship principle that was use throughout the start of the dynasty in KM. And make "No mistake about it those people were "Black"; and they say the land of KMT is a coloney that was form by one of their kings. "Hey just like here in American" "WoW"

But now let's get really busy with some knowledge "Shall we"

There we have the making of the Kemetic civilization being put together, and they state that Kemetic was started with a King call Ausar, and that the Kemetic people are a colony that sprang from them; this is stated in the records by a Kemetic high priest Manetho 300 B.C.,also recorded by Diodorus a Greek historian 100 B. C.

So as you can see the the Kemetic people did recognizes that that they came from interior of what we call Africa.

For the most part there was the (3)lands Ta-Neter means: (Land of the Creator) Equatorial Africa, Ta-Seti means: (Land of the Bow) and Ta-Merry means: (Twice belove land) So to mention any other civilization like the Greeks/Arabs or Jews is a wrong statement, since it will be thousands of years before they make their presents known, because they had not reach that development yet.

We know that the so call 1st unification of Kemet by Namer happen around 3100 B. C. (Again my investigation puts it around 4140 B.C.), I tend to place it a lot further than that. Their records show that they had a working Calendar that they use in the year 4142 B. C. We also can state that the Mer-Khuti (Great Pyramid) and the Hru-em_aket, miss called a Spinx: (for the record a Spinx is a Greek mythology creature that had the head of a eagle and the body of a lion;

and if you did not solve its riddle it was suppose to eat you), and that has nothing to do with that great and powerful structure that sitting in Giza and the meaning is totally different.

Also the Jews and no other slaves built these structures, and that it took skill labor, just as today to build. And again to see the earlest design and start of building Pyramids, you must look to the South of Kemet to the land of Ta-Seti.


Now on about the the Kemetic people (Egyptians) and their view the word god , gods, and goddes; first the Kemetic people did not use or know that term, since it's a western (Greek) way of classify and thinking.

New archaeological evidence shows the Kemetic people worship of the One Supreme Being dates back to 50,000 B. C. E. and the Sun was not look at as the Supreme being Creator (God), but a symbolic representation of the dynamic aspect of the manifesting power of the Supreme Being.

So the Kemetic people belief system was base on their surrounding and what they seen in nature.

Here are some Kemetic principle (terms) mis-used and wrongly call gods and goddess.

Neter: NTR the ALL

Maat: Do you know this ancient afrikan word (Truth, Balance, Righteousness, Uprightness, Reciprocity, Integrity, and Justice) are a few of its meaning ; it comes from the kingdom of ancient "KMT", Kemet, Ta-Mry (Twice Beloved Land), mis-called Egypt. It consist of 42 Laws - which was taught to Mose, (Bible Act 7:22), but is alot older going back more than two Great Cycles (1 cycle is 26,000 years long).

I am a upholder of the 42 Laws of Maat; which contain a few of these statemnts.

I will do no Wrong.
I will not Lie.
I will not cheat.
I will not Steal.
I will not hurt any child, woman, or man.
i will not get angry, unless for a just cause

Amen: Hidden Aspect of the "Creature"
Amen-Ra: Hidden Sun (solar energy)
Ra Supreme Being the power behind the sun (We call it solar energy) "I do not worship the sun" "I repeat
this is not Sun Worship".... I believe in the One Creator, the creator of all things... and this is h

Aten: The physical sun
Shu: Air, Tefnut: Moisture
Nut: Heaven
Geb: Earth
Ausar: (Osiris - Greek term) Father principle
Auset: (Isis - Greek term) Mother principle
Hru-ur: (Horus - Greek term) Krst (kristos/christ) principle
Set: (Evil one, Devil - Greek) Negative self/lower, thoughts and deeds
Nebt-Het: Lady of the House
Het-Hru : House of Hru the Krst principle/holy sprite (your body temple)

Now all I ask is for you to do is some homework and look into all information I have made availble to you.

Now since I just happen to stubble upon this site and you want to comment or debate me on what I have written here feel free to contact here aahmes69@yahoo.com, and I be more than happy to blow for blow, round for round, come to a "True Meaning of the Mind"

For this wisdom is be brought to you from this "Beloved Child of the Sun" Aahmes Hrukhuti Maat AmenRa

Some more knowledge: Aahmes a king of the 18th dynasty which brought stilbility to the land... Oh he was another "Nubian" form the upper KMT...

I can tell you this that when you do some serious investigation you will see that from 1st to the 8th dynasty the people are "Black\Negroed" and around the 10th to the 16th dynasty is were you find the beginning of invaders into the land of KMT, and still have another 1500 years before the the "Greeks" show up in writting... so the people of that land were and never called themself "Egyptians" or their land "Egypt" If you real want to get down with it go check out the writting in the "Pert Em Hru", miscalled the "Egyptian book of the Dead"...."Silly rabbit, trick are for Kids"

I now will leave you with the devine words of my ancestors

Mer-Hotep: Peace and Love be with you always

P. S. They mostly read from left to right, not right to left.. I'm just saying Peace I'm out

Anonymous said...

The Geographical Origins and Population Relationships of Early Ancient Egyptians
Professor S.O.Y. Keita
Department of Biological Anthropology
Oxford University

Professor A. J. Boyce
University Reader in Human Population
Oxford University

What was the primary geographical source for the peopling of the Egyptian Nile Valley? Were the creators of the fundamental culture of southern predynastic Egypt?which led to the dynastic culture?migrants and colonists from Europe or the Near East? Or were they predominantly African variant populations?

These questions can be addressed using data from studies of biology and culture, and evolutionary interpretive models. Archaeological and linguistic data indicate an origin in Africa. Biological data from living Egyptians and from skeletons of ancient Egyptians may also shed light on these questions. It is important to keep in mind the long presence of humans in Africa, and that there should be a great range of biological variation in indigenous "authentic" Africans.

Scientists have been studying remains from the Egyptian Nile Valley for years. Analysis of crania is the traditional approach to assessing ancient population origins, relationships, and diversity. In studies based on anatomical traits and measurements of crania, similarities have been found between Nile Valley crania from 30,000, 20,000 and 12,000 years ago and various African remains from more recent times (see Thoma 1984; Brauer and Rimbach 1990; Angel and Kelley 1986; Keita 1993). Studies of crania from southern predynastic Egypt, from the formative period (4000-3100 B.C.), show them usually to be more similar to the crania of ancient Nubians, Kushites, Saharans, or modern groups from the Horn of Africa than to those of dynastic northern Egyptians or ancient or modern southern Europeans.

Another source of skeletal data is limb proportions, which generally vary with different climatic belts. In general, the early Nile Valley remains have the proportions of more tropical populations, which is noteworthy since Egypt is not in the tropics. This suggests that the Egyptian Nile Valley was not primarily settled by cold-adapted peoples, such as Europeans.

Art objects are not generally used by biological anthropologists. They are suspect as data and their interpretation highly dependent on stereotyped thinking. However, because art has often been used to comment on the physiognomies of ancient Egyptians, a few remarks are in order. A review of literature and the sculpture indicates characteristics that also can be found in the Horn of (East) Africa (see, e.g., Petrie 1939; Drake 1987; Keita 1993). Old and Middle Kingdom statuary shows a range of characteristics; many, if not most, individuals depicted in the art have variations on the narrow-nosed, narrow-faced morphology also seen in various East Africans. This East African anatomy, once seen as being the result of a mixture of different "races," is better understood as being part of the range of indigenous African variation.

The descriptions and terms of ancient Greek writers have sometimes been used to comment on Egyptian origins. This is problematic since the ancient writers were not doing population biology. However, we can examine one issue. The Greeks called all groups south of Egypt "Ethiopians." Were the Egyptians more related to any of these "Ethiopians" than to the Greeks? As noted, cranial and limb studies have indicated greater similarity to Somalis, Kushites and Nubians, all "Ethiopians" in ancient Greek terms.

There are few studies of ancient DNA from Egyptian remains and none so far of southern predynastic skeletons. A study of 12th Dynasty DNA shows that the remains evaluated had multiple lines of descent, including not surprisingly some from "sub-Saharan" Africa (Paabo and Di Rienzo 1993). The other lineages were not identified, but may be African in origin. More work is needed. In the future, early remains from the Nile Valley and the rest of Africa will have to be studied in this manner in order to establish the early baseline range of genetic variation of all Africa. The data are important to avoid stereotyped ideas about the DNA of African peoples.

The information from the living Egyptian population may not be as useful because historical records indicate substantial immigration into Egypt over the last several millennia, and it seems to have been far greater from the Near East and Europe than from areas far south of Egypt. "Substantial immigration" can actually mean a relatively small number of people in terms of population genetics theory. It has been determined that an average migration rate of one percent per generation into a region could result in a great change of the original gene frequencies in only several thousand years. (This assumes that all migrants marry natives and that all native-migrant offspring remain in the region.) It is obvious then that an ethnic group or nationality can change in average gene frequencies or physiognomy by intermarriage, unless social rules exclude the products of "mixed" unions from membership in the receiving group. More abstractly this means that geographically defined populations can undergo significant genetic change with a small percentage of steady assimilation of "foreign" genes. This is true even if natural selection does not favor the genes (and does not eliminate them).

Examples of regions that have biologically absorbed genetically different immigrants are Sicily, Portugal, and Greece, where the frequencies of various genetic markers (and historical records) indicate sub-Saharan and supra-Saharan African migrants.

This scenario is different from one in which a different population replaces another via colonization. Native Egyptians were variable. Foreigners added to this variability.

The genetic data on the recent Egyptian population is fairly sparse. There has not been systematic research on large samples from the numerous regions of Egypt. Taken collectively, the results of various analyses suggest that modern Egyptians have ties with various African regions, as well as with Near Easterners and Europeans. Egyptian gene frequencies are between those of Europeans and some sub-Saharan Africans. This is not surprising. The studies have used various kinds of data: standard blood groups and proteins, mitochondrial DNA, and the Y chromosome. The gene frequencies and variants of the "original" population, or of one of early high density, cannot be deduced without a theoretical model based on archaeological and "historical" data, including the aforementioned DNA from ancient skeletons. (It must be noted that it is not yet clear how useful ancient DNA will be in most historical genetic research.) It is not clear to what degree certain genetic systems usually interpreted as non-African may in fact be native to Africa. Much depends on how "African" is defined and the model of interpretation.

The various genetic studies usually suffer from what is called categorical thinking, specifically, racial thinking. Many investigators still think of "African" in a stereotyped, nonscientific (nonevolutionary) fashion, not acknowledging a range of genetic variants or traits as equally African. The definition of "African" that would be most appropriate should encompass variants that arose in Africa. Given that this is not the orientation of many scholars, who work from outmoded racial perspectives, the presence of "stereotypical" African genes so far from the "African heartland" is noteworthy. These genes have always been in the valley in any reasonable interpretation of the data. As a team of Egyptian geneticists stated recently, "During this long history and besides these Asiatic influences, Egypt maintained its African identity . . ." (Mahmoud et al. 1987). This statement is even more true in a wider evolutionary interpretation, since some of the "Asian" genes may be African in origin. Modern data and improved theoretical approaches extend and validate this conclusion.

In summary, various kinds of data and the evolutionary approach indicate that the Nile Valley populations had greater ties with other African populations in the early ancient period. Early Nile Valley populations were primarily coextensive with indigenous African populations. Linguistic and archaeological data provide key supporting evidence for a primarily African origin.


References Cited:

Angel, J. L., and J. O. Kelley, Description and comparison of the skeleton. In The Wadi Kubbaniya Skeleton: A Late Paleolithic
Burial from Southern Egypt. E Wendorf and R. Schild. pp. 53-70. Dallas: Southern Methodist University Press. 1986

Brauer, G., and K. Rimbach, Late archaic and modern Homo sapiens from Europe, Africa, and Southwest Asia: Craniometric comparisons and phylogenetic implications, Journal of Human Evolution 19:789-807. 1990

Drake, St. C., Black Folk Here and There, vol 1. Los Angeles: University of California. 1987

Keita, S.O.Y., Studies and comments on ancient Egyptian biological relationships. History in Africa 20:129-154. 1993

Mahmoud, L. et. al, Human blood groups in Dakhlaya. Egypt. Annah of Human Biology. 14(6):487-493. 1987

Paabo, S., and A. Di Rienzo, A molecular approach to the study of Egyptian history. In Biological Anthropology and the Study
of Ancient Egypt. V. Davies and R. Walker, eds. pp. 86-90. London: British Museum Press. 1993

Petrie, W.M., F. The Making of Egypt. London: Sheldon Press. 1984

Thoma, A., Morphology and affinities of the Nazlet Khaterman. Journal of Human Evolution 13:287-296. 1984


10 reasons why the Egyptians were not "Caucasoid"..

1. The Dynastic race theory and the Hamitic Hypothesis have both fallen out of favor.. (See Ian Shaw, Oxford History Of Ancient Egypt)

2. The Egyptians therefore did not migrate from the North, and archaeological observations backs up more favored notions of mass migration from the south, due in part to a fertile Sahara and changing climatic conditions in the Nile and the Sahara. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Origin_of_...peopl ing

3. Cranial analysis found that the predynastic Badari culture stretching from 5000 - 4000 BC., had most similarities to East African Teita tribes in Kenya, while Cranial studies of Naqada II found the closest similarities with ancient Nubian Sudan, and Somalia, and the Falaheen in Israel (due most likely to possessing substantial amounts of East African specific e3b since Fellaheen do not fit into a Middle Eastern or Mediterranean Cluster).. http://www.homestead.com/wysinger/badari.pdf http://www.homestead.com/wysinger/brace_2006.pdf

Brace also established a link between these people and groups among the Congo (deep sub-Sahara).

"The Niger-Congo speakers, Congo, Dahomey and Haya, cluster closely with each other and a bit less closely with the Nubian sample � both the recent and the Bronze Age Nubians � and more remotely with the Naqada Bronze Age sample of Egypt, the modern Somalis, and the Arabic-speaking Fellaheen (farmers) of Israel. When those samples are separated and run in a single analysis as in Fig. 1, there clearly is a tie between them that is diluted the farther one gets from sub-Saharan Africa" - Brace

4. The 1rst Dynasty remains at the tombs in Abydos were assessed. What was found is that out of all the samples they clustered closest to Kerma (Nubian sample) than anyone else. http://www.homestead.com/wysinger/keita-1993.pdf


5. The Egyptians had tropical body plans, meaning their skeletal type indicates adaptation to a tropical environment. Note: Egypt is not in the tropics, so take this info as you will, but I will say that the closest tropical habitat to Egypt is sub-Saharan Africa.

"The raw values in Table 6 suggest that Egyptians had the �super-Negroid� body plan described by Robins (1983). The values for the brachial and crural indices show that the distal segments of each limb are longer relative to the proximal segments than in many �African� populations." - Zakrzewski http://www.homestead.com/wysinger/eg...roportions.pdf


6. Ancient Egyptian language belongs to the Afro-Asiatic language phylum, which began in Africa. Also the fact that Ancient Egyptian is older than semitic (semitic is the only Afro-Asiatic language spoken outside of Africa), that makes Ancient Egyptian an African language by default. And its closest neighbor is not Semitic, there is much debate on that but most say Beja or Chadic resembles it closest based on genetic relationships in linguistics. http://www.forumcityusa.com/viewtopi...&mforum=africa


7. Continuity has been found to last from the predynastic of Egypt, well into the dynastic.. Meaning they virtually stayed the same and didn't immediately become an all out "mixed" super heterogeneous population until later. Whatever they were (Ethiopic/Eastern African) in the predynastic, they were well into the dynastic, which is later confirmed through Old Kingdom Giza remains, etc... http://wysinger.homestead.com/zakrzewski_2007.pdf


8. Mitochondrial DNA tests on modern Egyptians found an underlying ancestral lineage to East Africa. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=14748828


9. Y Chromosomes found Genes native to Africa specifically (Haploids V, XI, and IV) and scarce outside of it, Egyptians have these in high frequencies, left over from the past and diluted due to admixture. Haplotype V is common in Berbers and is scarce outside Africa. Meaning two things, modern North Africans are mixed with Arab and are not Arab, and that the Egyptians were not Berbers but V, XI, and IV bearers of sub/supra-Saharan genes that had little to do with anyone outside of the continent. (sources provided in the next set of links)


10. Recent studies on Egyptian Y chromosomes have found close ancestral connections even between modern Egyptians and various other supra/sub-Saharan African populations.

"A review of the recent literature indicates that there are male lineage ties between African peoples who have been traditionally labeled as being ��racially�� different, with ��racially�� implying an ontologically deep divide. The PN2 transition, a Y chromosome marker, defines a lineage (within the YAPþ derived haplogroup E or III) that emerged in Africa probably before the last glacial maximum, but after the migration of modern humans from Africa (see Semino et al., 2004) This mutation forms a clade that has two daughter subclades (defined by the biallelic markers M35/215 (or 215/M35) and M2) that unites numerous phenotypically variant African populations from the supra-Saharan, Saharan, and sub-Saharan regions based on current data (Underhill, 2001)" http://mbe.library.arizona.edu/data/1994/1105/4hamm.pdf http://www.homestead.com/wysinger/No...n_analysis.pdf

MKGlouisville
Posts: 3
From: Louisville
Registered: 6/10/08 More Evidence
Posted: Jun 11, 2008 3:09 PM (3 of 3)
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MODS please don't delete this evidence. It would basicaly be spam if I made the rant in the original post and posted no evidence to back my claims. It's just Scientific evidence there is no need for censorship of this!

ome genetic studies suggest that modern Egyptians don't have very close relations to most tropical Africans. [1] Populations from throughout the world were compared using extensive genetic data. The North African populations grouped with West Eurasian (European, Middle East) populations rather than sub-Saharan Africans.[2] However, extensive studies have also been carried out to determine the origins of the Egyptians.

A 2004 study of the mtDNA of 58 native inhabitants from upper Egypt performed to indicate origins found a genetic ancestral heritage to East Africa, and another study links Egyptians in general with people from modern Eritrea and Ethiopia.[3]

The mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) diversity of 58 individuals from Upper Egypt, more than half (34 individuals) from Gurna, whose population has an ancient cultural history, were studied by sequencing the control-region and screening diagnostic RFLP markers. This sedentary population presented similarities to the Ethiopian population by the L1 and L2 macrohaplogroup frequency (20.6%), by the West Eurasian component (defined by haplogroups H to K and T to X) and particularly by a high frequency (17.6%) of haplogroup M1. We statistically and phylogenetically analysed and compared the Gurna population with other Egyptian, Near East and sub-Saharan Africa populations; AMOVA and Minimum Spanning Network analysis showed that the Gurna population was not isolated from neighbouring populations. Our results suggest that the Gurna population has conserved the trace of an ancestral genetic structure from an ancestral East African population, characterized by a high M1 haplogroup frequency. The current structure of the Egyptian population may be the result of further influence of neighbouring populations on this ancestral population.[4]

A 2007 study suggests overall population continuity over the predynastic and early dynastic periods with high levels of heterogeneity but concludes that Egyptian civilization was predominantly indigenous in development, with some, but limited migration from elsewhere.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=14748828

American Journal of Physical Anthropology, 2007. © 2007 Wiley-Liss, Inc. [
http://wysinger.homestead.com/zakrzewski_2007.pdf

A 2003 Y chromosome study was performed by Lucotte on modern Egyptians, with haplotypes V, XI, and IV being most common.[15] Haplotype V is common in Berbers and has a low frequency outside Africa. [16] Haplotypes V, XI, and IV are all supra/sub-Saharan horn of Africa haplotypes, and they are far more dominant in Egyptians than in Near Eastern or European groups.

A review of the recent literature indicates that there are male lineage ties between African peoples who have been traditionally labeled as being ??racially?? different, with ??racially?? implying an ontologically deep divide. The PN2 transition, a Y chromosome marker, defines a lineage (within the YAPþ derived haplogroup E or III) that emerged in Africa probably before the last glacial maximum, but after the migration of modern humans from Africa (see Semino et al., 2004) This mutation forms a clade that has two daughter subclades (defined by the biallelic markers M35/215 (or 215/M35) and M2) that unites numerous phenotypically variant African populations from the supra-Saharan, Saharan, and sub-Saharan regions based on current data (Underhill, 2001).[17][18]
A 2006 bioarchaeological study on the dental morphology of ancient Egyptians by Prof. Joel Irish shows that a continuity extends from the dynastic to the post-dyanstic periods, and that the Egyptians exhibit dental traits characteristic of indigenous North Africans, and Southwest Asians to a lesser extent. A sample from the western desert from Nubia was also compared with the Egyptian samples and were found to be significantly different, with the exception of predynastic and early dyanstic samples.[19]

http://www.homestead.com/wysinger/ha...s_in_egypt.pdf

http://www.homestead.com/wysinger/keita6.pdf

http://mbe.library.arizona.edu/data/1994/1105/4hamm.pdf

http://www.homestead.com/wysinger/No...n_analysis.pdf

http://www.homestead.com/wysinger/who_were_egyptian.pdf

There were several theories regarding the effects and types of demographic influence on ancient Egypt. All of these theories aimed to explain why ancient Egyptians cluster the way they do in regards to genetics, cranial affinities, and languages/culture. One theory is that the ancient Egyptians belong to a primarily African group, with relatively little significant outside influences from the Near East. Other theories postulated that the ancient Egyptians received significant demographic influence from the Near East, and with minor demographic effects from regions further south.[20][21](SeeDynastic Race Theory)

Recent demographic analysis and work done by various anthropologists has led many scholars to conclude that there was in fact overall population continuity stretching from the Neolithic, right into dynastic times with small amounts of possible miscegenation with foreigners, placing Egyptian society with in a localized NorthEast African and Nile Valley context..[22][23][24][25] As University of Chicago Egyptologist Frank Yurco points out:

Certainly there was some foreign admixture [in Egypt], but basically a homogeneous African population had lived in the Nile Valley from ancient to modern times... [the] Badarian people, who developed the earliest Predynastic Egyptian culture, already exhibited the mix of North African and Sub-Saharan physical traits that have typified Egyptians ever since (Hassan 1985; Yurco 1989; Trigger 1978; Keita 1990; Brace et al., this volume)... The peoples of Egypt, the Sudan, and much of East Africa, Ethiopia and Somalia are now generally regarded as a Nilotic (i.e. Nile River) continuity, with widely ranging physical features (complexions light to dark, various hair and craniofacial types) but with powerful common cultural traits, including cattle pastoralist traditions (Trigger 1978; Bard, Snowden, this volume). Language research suggests that this Saharan-Nilotic population became speakers of the Afro-Asiatic languages... Semitic was evidently spoken by Saharans who crossed the Red Sea into Arabia and became ancestors of the Semitic speakers there, possibly around 7000 BC... In summary we may say that Egypt was a distinct North African culture rooted in the Nile Valley and on the Sahara.
Biological anthropologist Shomarka Keita also believes population variation in Egypt to be primarily indigenous, and not necessarily the result of significant intermingling of widely divergent peoples.[26] He identifies northern and southern patterns in the Egyptian population of the early predynastic period, which he describes as "northern-Egyptian-Maghreb" and "tropical African variant" (overlapping with Nubia/Kush) respectively. He shows that a progressive change in Upper Egypt toward the northern Egyptian pattern takes place through the predynastic period. While the southern pattern continues to predominate in Abydos in Upper Egypt by the First Dynasty, Keita indicated that "coastal northern African" modal patterns are observed also, thus making for great diversity. This northern modal pattern is noted by Keita as being intermediate between equatorial African and northern European phenotypes.

Bosch et. al, 1997
Newman 1995
Frank Yurco, "An Egyptological Review" in Mary R. Lefkowitz and Guy MacLean Rogers, eds. Black Athena Revisited. Chapel Hill: University of North Carolina Press, 1996. p. 62-100
Zakrzewski, et al. 2007.
Irish, et al. 2006.
http://www.homestead.com/wysinger/keita6.pdf
Keita SOY and Rick A. Kittles. The Persistence of Racial Thinking and the Myth of Racial Divergence. American Anthropologist, New Series, Vol. 99, No. 3 (Sep., 1997), pp. 534-544
S.O.Y. Keita, American Journal of Physical Anthropology, 87: 245-254 (1992)

A craniofacial study by C. Loring Brace et. al. concluded that "The Predynastic of Upper Egypt and the Late Dynastic of Lower Egypt are more closely related to each other than to any other population. As a whole, they show ties with the European Neolithic, North Africa, modern Europe, and, more remotely, India, but not at all with sub-Saharan Africa [except for Somalia], eastern Asia, Oceania, or the New World."[28]

Keita and Kittles (1997) criticize the study due its alleged contradictions, and selective approach in pigeon holding biohistorical Africans within a fixed architype, in effect, "deafricanizing" groups such as Egyptians, Nubians, and Somali people. They write:

Another example of the use of a socially constructed typological paradigm is in studies of the Nile Valley populations in which the concept of a biological African is restricted to those with a particular craniometric pattern (called in the past the 'True African' though no 'True White' was ever defined). Early Nubians, Egyptians, and even Somalians are viewed essentially as non-Africans, when in fact numerous lines of evidence and an evolutionary model make them a part of African biocultural/biogeographical history. The diversity of 'authentic' Africans is a reality. This diversity prevents biogeographical/biohistorical Africans from clustering into a single unit, no matter the kind of data. [29]
A 2005 study by Keita of Badarian crania in predynastic upper Egypt in comparison to various European and tropical African crania found that the predynastic Badarian series clusters much closer with the Tropical African series.[30]

Another study by Brace et al. published in 2006 found that samples from Naqada II Bronze age Egypt clustered primarily with modern Somalis, Nubians, Arabic-speaking Fellaheen farmers of Israel, and more remotely with some Niger-Congo speaker, while adding that a "Sub-Saharan African element" was not found in the historical North African or Egyptian samples:

The Niger-Congo speakers, Congo, Dahomey and Haya, cluster closely with each other and a bit less closely with the Nubian sample - both the recent and the Bronze Age Nubians - and more remotely with the Naqada Bronze Age sample of Egypt, the modern Somalis, and the Arabic-speaking Fellaheen (farmers) of Israel. When those samples are separated and run in a single analysis as in Fig. 1, there clearly is a tie between them that is diluted the farther one gets from sub-Saharan Africa. The other obvious matter shown in Fig. 3 is the separate identity of the northern Europeans.[31]

Brace et al., 'Clines and clusters versus "race"' (1993)
S.O.Y. Keita and Rick A. Kittles,' The Persistence of Racial Thinking and the Myth of Racial Divergence', American Anthropologist (1997)
S.O.Y. Keita, Journal of Black Studies, Vol. 36 No. 2, pp. 191-208 (2005) Brace et al, 2006 [2], p. 244

Body Plans
Another reliable source of skeletal data is limb proportions, which tends to vary with different climatic belts. The early Nile Valley populations possessed more tropical body proportions, suggesting that the Egyptian Nile Valley was not primarily settled by cold-adapted peoples, such as Europeans.[32] A 2003 paper appeared in the American Journal of Physical Anthropology by Dr Sonia Zakrzewski entitled 'Variation in Ancient Egyptian Stature and Body Proportions', where she confirmed the results of previous studies, indicating that the Ancient Egyptians had tropically adapted body plans.

The raw values in Table 6 suggest that Egyptians had the ?super-African' body plan described by Robins (1983). The values for the brachial and crural indices show that the distal segments of each limb are longer relative to the proximal segments than in many ?African? populations.

S.O.Y. Keita & A. J. Boyce. Egypt in Africa, (1996), pp. 25-27
http://www.homestead.com/wysinger/eg...roportions.pdf

Saharan-Sudanic inheritance of Nile Valley settlers. Data on the peopling of the Nile Valley do not appear to support earlier historical notions of an initial wave of Caucasoid invaders entering from the North in order to introduce civilization. Mainstream data shows gradual movement and peopling from the south- the Saharan zone and associated parts of the Sudanic region, fusing with indigenous Nilotic elements already in place, leading into the development of the well-known Egyptian kingdoms, not sweeping insertions from the Mediterranean, Mesopotamia or elsewhere.(AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGY 83:35-48 (1990)[96] See Wiki article Predynastic Egypt for the now discounted Dynastic Race Theory. As to the Saharan movement even Afrocentric critics such as Mary Lefkowitz note:

"Recent work on skeletons and DNA suggests that the people who settled in the Nile valley, like all of humankind, came from somewhere south of the Sahara; they were not (as some nineteenth-century scholars had supposed) invaders from the North. See Bruce G. Trigger, "The Rise of Civilization in Egypt," Cambridge History of Africa (Cambridge, Cambridge University Press, 1982), vol I, pp 489-90; S. O. Y. Keita, "Studies and Comments on Ancient Egyptian Biological Relationships," History in Africa 20 (1993) 129-54."[97]

Elements from both the Sahara and associated Sudanic regions appear to have been involved in the peopling Egypt according to a number of mainstream references. The Khartoum Culture and other zones of the Sudan for example show significant influence as indicated by pottery, jewelry, tools and implements, raw materials such as certain types of stone, and artistic designs.[98]

S.O.Y. KEITA, "Studies of Ancient Crania From Northern Africa", AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGY 83:35-48 (1990)
^ Lefkowitz, Mary "Not Out of Africa: How Afrocentrism Became an Excuse to Teach Myth as History," Basic Books, 1997]

Shomarka Omar Keita and Zahi Hawass discuss colorism and race or genetics of AE (In 2 parts)

Keita states that there is no Scientific evidence in existence which sugguest that the Ancient Egyptians were anything other than Indigenous Northeast Africans.

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/vi...eID=1414281487

Anonymous said...

636-640 AD Islam went into Egypt from Arabia and the people you see now are from that expansion of Islam..200 BC Romans came into Egypt and mixed European blood with Black African Blood. 400 BC the Greeks came in to Egypt and mixed first their European blood with Black African Blood. Basically for 2400 years a massive mix race population was created...
Using an example, United States of American was ruled by native Americans before the Christopher Columbus came who brought Europeans, disease and war.
This killed the Native Americans and now Europeans race dominate America.( But it is not their native land, same thing applies to Arabs in Egypt)

10,000 years ago was Kemet (Egypt). No Europeans civilization existed yet. Their was no major force in the world that could take on and defeat Egypt, expect Nubia or Kush.. Now nubia is east Africa, inhabitants are black Africans, Kush which was Ethiopia and Sudan, inhabitants are Black African. Kush or Sudan means land of black. Nubia mean black person, refer to Ancient Greek Dictionary, it's their words.

Kemet means land of burnt faces. (The ancient Egyptians called themselves this). Black Skin was dominate in Africa 10,00 years ago. White European skin was rare and mainly localized in europe in small cave dwellings in Europe (read history to confirm) Kemet was a black civilization with non-black people being the minority. Read history it a fact. P.S why did Napoleon Bonaparte shot of the sphinx African nose? What was his reason? please explain...I need clarification......

Fleur de lis said...

So Kman, when you view the mummified remains of one of the greatest pharoahs RamsesII, that fair straight hair you seen clearly is just a hoax, right?


http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=175474355

Anonymous said...

We "humans" come from AFRICA. We "Humans" thousandths of years ago, immigrated to what is known as "Americas", and other parts of the world where humans had never inhabited. Whites, browns, blacks, Asians, we "Humans" are all of mix decent. It angers me that people are saying that Egypt is not black, or that it is black with no european involved. Egypt is of mix culture that involves a mix of greek blood, and roman please acknowledge that!. Therefore, I conclude that we humans regardless of the color of our skin We are all of no pure ethnicity. Thank you kindly,.

Anonymous said...

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.white-history.com/hwr8_files/ram_mummy01.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.white-history.com/hwr8d.htm&usg=__j0FWNg7rUrQUhZ8sN4ozinf_ujE=&h=276&w=194&sz=28&hl=en&start=7&um=1&tbnid=NOVtNJznWQedMM:&tbnh=114&tbnw=80&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dking%2Bramses%2Bmummy%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN

Anonymous said...

http://wysinger.homestead.com/mapofnubia.html

Anonymous said...

http://wysinger.homestead.com/nubianarchers.html

Anonymous said...

There was a time when I would read things of this nature and think neither here or there about them. This was lame attempt to look at the ugliness of the past as a awful movie of the week, because in my mind we couldn't possibly be that ugly to one another over things we have no control of. My heart and mind are not made up like that, nor my parents, grandparents, or great grandparents. There is only so long that you will believe what you are told, before seeking the truth for yourself. One ugly truth out weighs millions of pounds of pretty lies.The part that makes me hold my head down and makes me ashamed to call myself a American is to this day a wrong race hasn't been apologized to nor paid for what was done, instead are rewarded by attempting to sweep the whole thing under a door mat of denial which is the equivalent of pouring salt into a opened wound. I am still learning about blacks from all over that endured entire tribes being wiped out(Tasmania people) to the injustice done to the people of Bikini Island. These travesties make me question what is wrong with us

KManR21 said...

To those who are anonymous, or born in Egypt and especially to Cody (the detractors)....I'm not sure of the age ranges involved here in this discussion but many of you sound misinformed and quite young in your historical perceptions of Egypt ( known to the ancients as Kemet)...
Fact 1, Egypt in Greek means black or dark skinned, as Kemet meant land of burnt people to the ancients. The Bible says both Egyptians and Ethiopians are descendants of Ham. (look it up) Genesis chapter 50 verses 7-11, scripture will describe ALL the Hebrews as looking like the ancient Egyptians.
a. The fact that the ancient Egyptians were black-skin prompted Volney to make the following statement: "What a subject for meditation, just think that the race of black men today our slaves and the object of our scorn, is the very race to which we owe our arts, science and even the use of our speech."
b. Gerald Massey, English writer and author of the book, Egypt the Light of the World, wrote, "The dignity is so ancient that the insignia of the Pharaoh evidently belonged to the time when Egyptians wore nothing but the girdle of the Negro." (p 251)
c. Sir Richard Francis Burton, a 19th century English explorer, writer and linguist in 1883 wrote to Gerald Massey, "You are quite right about the "AFRICAN" origin of the Egyptians. I have 100 human skulls to prove it."
d. Scientist, R. T. Prittchett, states in his book The Natural History of Man, "In their complex and many of the complexions and in physical peculiarities the Egyptians were an "AFRICAN" race (p 124-125). The Ancient Greek historian Herodotus, who visited Egypt in the 5th century B.C.E., saw the Egyptians face to face and described them as black-skinned with woolly hair.
Fact 2, do not confuse present day Egyptians for the ancients...as we do not confuse the Native American's of 100 years ago with their modern ancestors...they are a miscegenated people presently (meaning mixed) partly due to being almost entirely conquered as a nation of people. Arabs invaded Egypt in the 7th Century AD; Remember, Egypt wasn't invaded by Rome until 300 BC. The Bible dates 4000 BC. (pick up a book and read it)
Therefore, Arabs have no more connection to Ancient Egypt than Europeans have to Ancient America.
After the conquest of Egypt by Alexander, under the Ptolemy’s, crossbreeding between white Greeks and black Egyptians flourished. "Nowhere was Dionysus more favored, nowhere was he worshiped more adoringly and more elaborately than by the Ptolemy’s, who recognized his cult as an especially effective means of promoting the assimilation of the conquering Greeks and their fusion with the native Egyptians." {End note 15: J. J. Bachofen, Pages choisies par Adrien Turel, "Du Regne de la mere au patriarcat." Paris: F. Alcan, 1938, p. 89.}

KManR21 said...

Fact 3, Black Africans have the most diverse genome on the planet from the lightest melanin to the darkest pigments; from straight to the curliest of hair. Egyptian is an Afro-Asiatic language. (AFRO, AFRO); The national language of modern day Egypt is Egyptian Arabic, which gradually replaced Coptic. (Coptic--Ethiopia). Black Egyptians were eventually mixed with invading Libyans, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Turks, Arabs and Western Europeans. That is where the mixed people of the modern-day Arabs come from.
Fact 4, Every scholar worth his salt knows that the origins of Egypt are Black Africans...
George Rawlinson, an English author wrote a book entitled History of Egypt. On page 252, he gives a description of Seti I. He states: "SETI'S FACE WAS THOROUGHLY AFRICAN. HE HAD A STORMY FACE WITH A DEPRESSED FLAT NOSE, THICK LIPS AND HEAVY CHIN."
The word Niger is a Latin word that means BLACK, and Cyrene is a city in Libya, which is located in North Africa. Historians and scholars both agree that the city of Cyrene was a black area, meaning it was heavily populated with black skin-people in "biblical" times. Cyrene is also the place where Simon, the man who helped Yahshuah carry the cross (stake) was from (Matt. 27:32, Mark 15:21, Luke 23:26). Many acknowledge that Simon (the cross bearer) was a "black" man.
Acts 21:37-38, states that Paul, (Shaul in Hebrew) the apostle, was being led into a castle by a chief captain. Paul spoke to the chief in Greek, asking permission to speak with him. The chief captain was surprised that Paul could speak Greek and in verse 38, asks Paul, "Are not you that EGYPTIAN?" Paul responded, (Verse 39) "I am a man of Israel (Hebrew)."

KManR21 said...

Fact 5, Westernized historical mis-education and erroneous depiction of not only African history, but Asian, Native American and others as well is why so many people do not know the TRUTH. This affects all of us negatively. For instance , those who do not know the TRUTH will begin to believe the lie. If you were raised in America a country built on racism, even when slavery has been long since ended. Everything from the turn of the century has been reinforced to show white dominance in American culture. Which thusly affects the world…if you are a minority and see a white person playing a person of your race it sends a disturbing psychological message… for example.
In the early days of film white actors dressed in what was known then as black face, to pretend to be blacks. In the 40’s white actors used make up to pretend to be Asians, in the 50’s & 60’s they dressed up as the anti-hero Native American…these false images still affects people today…
Many of those who argue against the TRUTH of African origins in Egypt do so out of fear or ignorance. The mighty civilization the came to be known at Egypt came out of Nubia, Sudan & Ethiopia…countries which have much older history’s and artifacts to prove their building and connection to that ancient place. Upper Egyptian and West African blood-types; detailed Afro-Egyptian linguistic studies and the corroboration of distinct Afro-Egyptian cultural traits; documents of racial designations employed by the early Africans themselves; Biblical testimonies and references that address the ancient Egyptian's ethnicity, race and culture; and the writings of early Greek and Roman travelers and scholars describing the physical characteristics of the ancient Egyptians. It really is not an argument as it is a revealing of the TRUTH of the matter…one should ask one’s self why is it so important that whites do not want to accept this TRUTH..When it is clear…Egypt is in Africa…(the Moors who invaded and conquered Spain 700-800 yrs) were also Black Africans…who are the only people in the world who can look like everyone else and still be dominantly Black (by genetics)…From Michael Jordan to Tiger Woods, Halle Berry, Lenny Kravitz, Derick Jeter & Slash…Everyone has a contribution to give, yet it seems that if Black Africans gave the world civilization (religion, medicine, art, math, architecture, machines, and more) that it becomes an impossibility…Wake up…look around…in: Politics, technology, sports, music, entertainment, academics and life…Black Africans and their descendants have given much to this world..
In conclusion: as a History Teacher…and I believe when we do not teach history correctly we all suffer..
The Chaldeans, Ethiopians and Egyptians have thick lips, broad nose, woolly hair and they are burnt of skin." -- Herodotus, 450 BC
Ref: The following is supporting evidence from The African Origin of Civilization: by: Cheikh Anta Diop.

Ref: Originally published 1995: [1] For a summary of my work on these forgeries, see: “Ra-Hotep and Nofret: Modern Forgeries in the Cairo Museum?” pp. 207-212 in Egypt: Child of Africa (1994), edited by Ivan Van Sertima.
Ref: Prof. Manu Ampim: THE VANISHING EVIDENCE OF CLASSICAL AFRICAN CIVILIZATIONS: “A 2001 Update”

Mike Armelagos said...

Blood types are another point of contention mentioned much above, and some are resurrecting arguments from Hitler's "Racial Hygiene" era in support. Basically blood types are so variable and so widely distributed that they are difficult to use n race classification.
http://nilevalleypeoples.blogspot.com/2009/11/blog-post_29.html

Lemories said...

This argument should be null and void. Especially when historians from every race who seen the Egyptians face to face,say they were Negroid people. There should be no argument when the oldest remains of any human being found,was that of the negroid race.The historians of ancient Egypt even painted writings stating that civilazation begin at the "Mountain of the Moon".There is only two places in Africa that is called the mountain of the moon,one at the base of Mt. Kilamangaro and in Sudan.Both of which is in Central Africa.To deny these facts,is like renouncing your own existence. My point is,how can a Negroid of any complexion be mixed with a race that comes directly from his own bloodline. In saying this, no i dont intend to make the African race or any other for that matter,seem as though they are inferior to the next,just stating the true facts.We as mankind should be able to except truth and move on from this argument,but the denial of fact just shows me America is still at a racial divide,which will lead to our demise.To me nature itself answers the question to this very debate.The same melanin that is found in the negroid race matches the foundation and complexion of nature.We all are decsendants from the same womb,therefore we all are related in one way or another.The facts are Egypt to the ancient world was looked at as a land of awe and wonder so of course it would be the object of conquest.If this were not so,when the Greeks,persians and babylonians invaded Egypt,they would have left the worlds first,and most informative library intact.That according to the writings of ancient Egyptians had all the answers to the origin of mankind.Point blank,the fact is that before conquest,Ancient Egypt was occupied and created by people of the Negroid race and that all mankind came from the womb of that same race.....Also remember Herodotus(so-called father of history) stated that egyptians owe their accomplishments to a much older race,which was the Ethiopins......Except the facts people and lets move on!

Anonymous said...

Had a question: What book contains a chapter titled " The Exploits of a Nigger King," indicative of the racism at the turn of the 20th century? I am taking an Africana Studies class and for some reason I didn't get that in my notes can anyone help.

King Amon said...

So funny... so funny.... If you dont know the Egyptians were black by now then your a non historian. They migrated up from the South to the North. There are 6 types of people in the World today. All African. As they migrated from Africa they became other colors and cultures due to climate. Check your anthropology and archeology. The people of KMT (Egypt) were black. White's back then said they were black. Check the so called father of history Herodotus for their cultural back ground. Malato is a goofy term in itself. There were some mixed Egyptians yes. Queens were mostly Nubian. Kings were pretty much black or a black mixed with Libyan or Asiatic. That happend for a short time might I add. Queen Tiye is Ahkenaten's mother. Tut's grandmother. Her husband was a brother aswell. Even Ahmos and Kamose were half black their sister was a full blooded Nubian. This argument would not be on the table from the Egyptians because they have always stated they were black and no one disagreed. The world then loved them for being black. Any Arab... who came 600 A.D. and was known as a Libyan..... can not make this claim that these are his ancestors. Whites..... let's not even go there. Next we will say Blacks were the real greeks.... stupidity. Any more objections and I will say lets begin with the mellanin test Cheikh Anti Diop proposed.

Anonymous said...

STOP TALKING SHIT.

african heritage. There is no biological link between europe and egyptians.FAILED, WRONG, LIES, BECAUSE ITS NOT BASED IN FACTS OR CIENCE.

DNA PROVE THEY CAME FROM EUROPE, THE PHAROAS AT LEAST AND SOME MUMIES, THATS WHY THEY TRIED NOT TO MIX WITH THE REST OF POPULATION.

I MADE A VERY BIG STUDY AND TRADE INFORMATION WITH SCIENTISTS, THE CULTURES WAS BRING FROM THE "WHITE" BY THE "WHITE", THEY CONQUERED SOME LAND TO THE NEGROID , THOSE WHO RESISTED WERE ENSLAVED, SOME PART OD THE CULTURE, CAME FROM SUMERIA.THE CIVILIZATION ITSELF DIDNT CAME FROM AFRICA, FOR SURE.

ITS FACTS PROVED.NOW TAKE YOU CONCLUSION.

AMERICA ISNT BLACK OR IT IS?
IS AMERICA AFRICAN? GOD -DONT BE STUPID.

DO YOU KNOW WHERE THE AMERICANS CAME FROM? NOW PEOPLE STOP BEING STUPID AND RETARD, SEE THE TRUTH IS RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR EYES.

EGYPTICINAS ARE NOT ONLY SKIN COLOUR, WHITE TAN, THEY ARE PHILOSOFY, WRITING, RELIGION,LANGUAGE, CULTURE, AND FOR SURE, THAT CAME FROM "WHITE", THEN DEVELOPED IN THAT PART OF AFRICA.

BLACK PEOPLE ARE THOSE FROM NEGROID RACE, ITS A TERM USED , LIKE A BAD THING, JUST FOR SOME REASON.THAT TERM ISNT USED TO EGYPTICINAS, TO INDIANS OR TAN ARABS, SO WAKE UP, RELAITY IS THE SAME.

NEGROIDS ARE PROCLAIMING, LIES, AND THAT WILL EMBARASSED THEM AND PROVE ONE THING:tHEY DONT DESERVE ANY TRUST.

SORRY, THEY SAY PEOPLE ARE RACIST, THER IS NO OTHER WAY TO DEAL WITH STUPIDITY.

Anonymous said...

BLACK WAS USED AS A HOLY COLOUR, DO YOU KNOW WHY?

IT ABSORVE MUCH MORE ENERGY FROM SUN.

THEY USED THE BLACK STONES AND THE GOLD. THERE IS A REACTION BETWEEN THE BLACK WHO GOT WARM AND THE GOLD, SOME KIND OF REACTION IT EGYPTICIANS IN FACT, WERE TAN NOT NEGROID OR BLACK.

NOW, FOR NEGROIDS- TELL ME WHERE IS NOW YOUR YOUR TECHNOLOGY YOU STUPID RETARD BLACK , WHY DO YOU KEEP LIVIN IN MUD HOUSES, WHERE IS THE KNOWLEDGMENT THAT YOU HAD IN EGYPTICIAN CIVILIZATION, YOUR SO STUPID, YOU ARE THE SHAME OF HUMANITY, BECAUSE YOU HAVE SOME BRAIN PROBLEM.
HALF HUMAN, HALF APPE.

WELL GILGAMESH - THE SUMERIAN STORIES TELL WHITE GODS , WENT TO AFRICA AND MIX THEIR WHITE DNA WITH A MONKEY, CREATED A CREATURE TO WORK IN MINES, AND THEN THEY RELEASTED THEM.(THEY SHOULD HAVE KILLED THEM)

SHOULD I BELIEVE IN WHAT SUMERIANS WROTE? I THING THERE IS ALWAYS A TRUE BEHIND TALES.

THIS REALITY IS HIDDEN, BUT READ GISLGAMESH , THE SUMERIAN KING YOU WILL FIND IT.I DONT WANT TO BELIEVE INTO THIS, BUT REALITY, SEEING NEGROIDS FALSE, NON SCIENTIFIC PROCLAIMS, MAKE ME THINK TWICE.SORRY ABOUT MY ENGLISH.

Starchild said...

The way i view this whole issue is this way,if a civilization arose on the asian continent then it must be asian with perhaps maybe some outside influences because of trade and migrations and the exchanging of ideas, if a civilization arose on the north/south american continent the its more than likely ameridian with perhaps some outside influences, if a civilization arose in europe then it is more than likely a caucasian civilization with perhaps some outside influences, if a civilization arose on the african continent then more than likely its a black/brown civilization with some influences depending on what period time the influx of outsiders where more prevelant,egypt is situated in that part of the world where they have may been a fusion of various races and people that inhabited that part of the world but it seems quite obvious that the basis of their civilzation was as african as their neighbors to the south of them, the language wasnt greek, arabic, italian, babylonian or phoenecian but afroasiatic,their religion was comparable to other african cultures, their burial procedures,their worship of deities seemed to have all come from the south, the greeks knew this more so than anyone,TA-SETI of nubia/kush probably was the father of the egyptian culture just as england was the father of the united states,the reason most people couldnt fathom this fact is for the same reasons they cant digest the possibilty of egypt being and african/black civilization, the prejudices and racist mindset of white americans and certain other caucasian people is so embedded in their minds, that at the very thought of ancient egypt being a black nation challenges their history as they know it to be as well as their racist white superiority consciousness,from observation of statues of kings such as king tut and paintings of darkskinned egyptian maidens with braided wigs playing harps is pretty convincing of what these people were, the fact that they arent portrayed as pitch black in most cases would probably be the same reason many afro americans arent pitch black,just because the egyptians depicted nubians to the south as darker or having more peculiar negroid features doesnt mean that they themselves were black, it simply means that african people in that part of the continent had varying features, to have caucasian features doesnt mean you were white especially when those features were more than likely prevelant on the african continent long before outward migrations to other parts of the world, what im saying is caucasian features are not white people features they are black people features since we had them first,the reason most modern egyptians dont identify themselves as black is because they arent true pure blooded egyptians, they are the offspring of hundreds of years of intermingling and waves of migrations of various types coming into the once original african egypt,thats why they dont know nothing,in all actualality the french that came into egypt knew more about its past then the modern egyptions, atleast the french knew that they were black.

Anonymous said...

Some of you people seem to be very ignorant on you history. It is quite clear to see that the egyptians were of african descent. No matter how much you fools may try to put egypt close to the middle east it will ALWAYS be apart of AFRICA. You would have to be really stupid to think that white people were on africa thousands of years ago when africans are the oldest race and were found to be the first humans. I can't believe how foolish people can actually be and the only reason why you say the stupid things you do is because you have not done extensive research on the topic. Whoever the fool was that said dna proved that the egyptians are from europe is a complete idiot. How can dna prove where someone is from that makes no sense at all. The fact of the matter is that people do not want to give credit to africans because the world still views them am inferior. They are not inferior the are the founders of us all. We try to make them inferior because we see how strong and powerful they are. All I have to say is go do research and you will be surprise how quickly your opinions change.

Anonymous said...

Simple facts... Egypt has always been in Africa and everyone in Africa are know as Africans. Why would anyone not include Egypt. I have never seen a movie about Ethiopia with whites playing the roles of Ethiopians. Only because there has never been as mighty and historic as Egypt. Our modern minds are too perverted to even understand what we are saying. Well here's the kicker...science has now proven that after DNA testing of all races,we all come from the oldest man on earth. He happens to be an African man whose closest dependents are of a tribe still in Africa.History shows the migration and so does science. Truth is that there were Africans of fair skin,but doesn't make them not Africans.Nor are they excluded from the black race. I know that's the last thing some whites would like to hear but its the truth. All the arguments are senseless. However I must agree with one comment......People never are bothered by what they are not affected by.

Anonymous said...

all i know is that egypt is in africa kemet which means egypt means black land so why deos the white and arab refuse 2 believe the land where egyptians migrated from was said 2 have gold baboons elephants leopards and hippo's now you tell me why did napoleon come to shoot the noses of the sphinx you tell me , they were not happy what they seen white people just want 2 be superior 2 everything thats why they raped pilaged and stole since the begining of time dont take this is racism its a proven fact,everything the white man has done since the begining of time has been evil.they dont want 2 admit eygptians were black because that would give our race two much credit for the scientific achievement our people have done

BettyBEATnik said...

i am a full blooded Egyptian born and raised in Egypt (Cairo to be exact) and we do not consider ourselves anything BUT Egyptians. Definitely not Europeans if anything AFRICAN. for Europeans to believe they they had something to do with our blood lines is quite hilarious. WE live in Africa walk soil of Africans and abide by the Nile. so if we had to choose between these sub categories with NO HESITATION we will be retrieved as indigenous AFRICANS.

Anonymous said...

Why then didnt the Europeans built the Pyramids in Europe..you people are playing us for fools. Europe is a large place but they chose to construct such in Africa???
Lets not forget who we're dealing with here.
Arabs also came much much later, and killed the Black Africans the same way theyve been doing in the Sudan.

Anonymous said...

i am chinese and i had lived in egypt from 1991 to 1995. all my 4 years there, i never met or knew a black/negroid egyptian. often, the only darker skinned egyptians i met/knew always had caucasian physical features i.e long, thin nose, high cheekbones, thin lips etc, but they had curly middle eastern hair and very black skin tone. even the egyptians would frown and gasp in disbelieve if a foreigner thinks their ancestors were black/negroid!!
having said that, i believe the ancient egypptians were people like the ethiopians or somalians, that they are considered black with caucasian feautures. these people, if they exist now, would consider themselves black due to their skin color and the fact that they come from africa. but they do not resemble the typical black/negroid peoples from central africa.

Anonymous said...

you lived in Kemet for 4 years and you dont believe the ANCIENT EYGPTIAN WHERE NEGROID did you go to a mueseum to see the mummies with braids the dark features??? I dont think anyone on this blog is talking about the time you lived there there talking 3000 years ago please person do some reasearch thank you Peace hotep

Anonymous said...

hi there, im An egyptian american, and this article is completely ignorant, mildly offensive, and not true... i was doing research on my own race, and i came across this article and was appauled.. egyptians are their own race. yes, egypt is in africa, but russia is in asia, and no one considers them asians. this entire argument is stupid.

Anonymous said...

Who told that guy that all africans had flat noses and kinky hair? The comment along shows that we could write a book on what he doesn't know. I would waste effort or words even responding to his thought just move to next comment and forget you read his words.

Anonymous said...

I have to say this after reading over peoples comments and i read the one that said people of egypt were black and someone comment and said you werent there so you dont know. Looking over everything i learned about history there was no whites but only in europe and as you can see they came in into each continent taking over enslaving anybody that was not like them. However it would make you question what were egyptians since they are in africa and at that time there were people of color and as you know blacks are of all different shades just like indians and latinos. So looking over history as well as the bible egyptians are more likely black.

Anonymous said...

Look at the art by ancient Egyptians....Their is an OBVIOUS difference between the depictions of the Egyptians and the depictions of the black nubians. The men are a darker shade of tan because they are out in the hot desert all day. The women are a lighter shade of tan. LOOK AT THE HAIR OF THE MUMMY! It is reddish brown.It is LONG with LOOSE CURLS. If this egyptian was a black person then how did she get that long hair? Did they have perms thousands of years ago? Just because Egypt is in africa does not mean that the Egyptians were black. Russia is in Asia. Does that mean russians are Asians? Are people from India asians? Call a russian an asian and he will say dont call me asian im russian. Egyptians were not white and THEY WERE NOT BLACK. They were are golden brown tanned group of people not white not black.